i agree with ed that in my experience most haiku poets have little truck with “mainstream” poetry, and that this is a problem for them, as poets, and for haiku in general add to this that most don’t care and it is apparent that to many, haiku is something other than poetry i think we should not be concerned with these people in this discussion: if haiku is something other than poetry, then there’s no point in bringing haiku sensibility to bear on it

but if haiku is poetry, then its relationship to the rest of poetry is a matter for consideration i would agree with ed that haiku needs to be taken outside of its own small world to realize its potential as world poetry

on the other hand:

i don’t know of a short story society of america either, but short stories have something better that haiku does not have: acceptance in the literary world even if the short story is only the red-headed stepchild of the profitable novel, it is still recognized as a worthy, even commercial, pursuit by the major publishers (whatever that may even mean any more) if i could submit haiku to the new yorker on the basis of literary merit (not as a spoof, parody, or oddment) and have the possibility of acceptance, i would not see the need for a haiku society of america either but this is not the case: i know from years of personal experience

i can’t speak to the notion that haiku organizations further segregate haiku from other literary pursuits: it’s possibly true, and it’s possibly not true. or even some of both but i can say that i see value in the purpose of at least one such organization (not surprisingly, it’s the one i founded) i think that until there is acceptance of haiku as literature, then haiku needs to keep track of itself, since nobody else in the literary enterprise is going to do so we don’t need to worry about whether robert frost’s poems are going to be preserved: there are variorum editions, complete editions, selected editions, annotated editions, etc. but unless haiku takes care of john wills’ work, for instance, it might well be lost since i feel wills’ haiku is a contribution to literature, we would all be the less in this case one of the purposes of the haiku foundation is to make certain that haiku takes care of its own until there might be such time as it’s unnecessary another of its purposes is just what ed would have us do: seek a closer relationship with the larger literary enterprise we’ll do this through the creation of an academic journal, considerations of poems that are haiku-like (and haiku that is more akin to other kinds of poetry), and by making available the biographical materials of poets who have essayed work on more than one side of this fence there have been others besides myself and jeff winke, of course, who have written poetry and other forms in addition to haiku, and it will serve haiku well to know about them, and what they achieved in both realms

perhaps haiku organizations do sing to the choir, but in the future reckoning of haiku as a significant literary genre, there will be many who will not know what haiku is and has been the haiku foundation will be there to help create some of the discussion and offer some of the context and it will have the resources to substantiate that new assessment those seeking information will certainly not be the choir at that point

norb’s featuring of jeff’s and my work here has helped our visibility, and perhaps indirectly raises the visibility of haiku as well
whether more than organizations have done: hard to say but i’m grateful, in any case, for the opportunity

thanks for your comments, ed

j

alot of the “publishing” that occurs in the haiku world is the product of a buddy system that after one’s name is established is nothing more than a slight variation on vanity publishing. friends publish friends, friends declare friends winners of the various haiku contests based on name recognition rather than the quality of the writing.

haiku needs its most talented practitioners to take the poems (?) to venues and audiences beyond the usual circuit. creating new haiku organizations (the foundation, the who, the hsa) only serves to further segregate haiku from the larger literary world.

i’m not aware of a short story society of america, or a free verse socirty of canada, or a limerick society of the galaxy though i think there’s a society of people who write star trek stories.

when haiku’s most talented practitioners (like jim k) summon the courage to take their art to the world at large, then they’ll be able to say they’re something more than big fish in a very, very small pond.

i’ve posed these questions to the self promoting pillars of haiku & have been met with silence.

your posts highlighting jeff winke, kacian & others have done more to promote haiku & haikai writing than organizations like the haiku foundation will ever do because the haiku organizations sing to the choir & no one else.

excellent writers like jim really need to send the message beyond the province, otherwise haiku will continue to be viewed as nothing more than parlor game poetry
ed

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